Nice Guys Don’t Get Laid Because They’re Creeps

November 23rd, 2008.

By: V

Last night, my Husband and I attended a charity dinner. I’m not exactly sure what disease or malady this dinner was fighting to cure, but I assumed it some sort of cancer. However, the real reason my Husband and I were attending was merely in order to meet our friend Brian’s new girlfriend. Apparently, she was hosting the event.

The story on the girlfriend was she had been whining to meet us for quite awhile. Brian was reluctant to make introductions because he wasn’t sure how serious he was about her and their relationship. Finally, the constant pouting and bickering won out and my Husband and I were herded like cattle to the event to meet Miss Prima Dona herself.

Obviously, I had reservations.

First of all, the girlfriend’s name is Tiffany. Tiffany. If ever there was a name that screamed spoiled self entitlement it is Tiffany. Hell, it’s impossible to even say the name without turning your nose up and pursing your lips.

Secondly, Miss Tiffany, after a mere 4 weeks of dating, had already tried to convince Brian to get rid of his cat. There isn’t a man alive who wouldn’t have been dumped 3 seconds after having the balls to ask me to give up any of my pets. And fuck allergies, they’re no excuse. The recipe for true love includes Zyrtec.

Fortunately, Brian retained possession of his beloved feline, but my subtle distaste for Tiffany remained.

After entering the building, my Husband and I quickly scanned the crowd looking for Brian. When we finally found him, he was suspiciously sans girlfriend.

“Where is Tiffany?” I asked.

“She’s over there,” Brian said as he pointed to a perky brunette animatedly talking to an awkward red headed guy, “Talking to an old friend. I’ll get her.”

“Don’t mention the cat,” warned my Husband.

Brian returned a few moments later with both the brunette and the awkward guy. Introductions were made and the guys quickly started talking sports. Politely, I turned towards Tiffany and tried to make conversation.

“So…do you live around here?”

“Oh yeah,” she answered, “Been here about a year.”

“Do you enjoy the area?”

Granted, this wasn’t the most stimulating conversation we could have been having. My only excuse was that I had only known her for about 30 seconds. Still, that didn’t stop this bitch from pulling her cell phone out of her pocket and, mid conversation with me, dialing a phone number and screaming profanities onto some poor sap’s answering machine.

Strike three and I was officially done with Tiffany. I turned towards the guys while Tiffany made another call. A few seconds later, Tiffany wandered off, leaving us with her weirdo friend.

The four of us decided to grab some seats. My Husband and Brian sat on one side of the table. I sat across from my Husband and next to Tiffany’s friend who introduced himself as ‘Bomber.’

I am not making that up. This guy adamantly insisted we all refer to him as ‘Bomber.

Did I mention that Bomber was strange? Because Hoooo boy, was Bomber strange! He stuttered and twitched and had absolutely zero social skills. For example, in the middle of a very lively conversation about politics, he interrupted to clumsily blurt, “I like karate!”

Trying my best to be polite to Bomber, I turned toward him in an attempt to make conversation.

“That sounds interesting,” I replied, “Do you take lessons?”

“Yes.”

“How long have you been involved with the sport?”

“Awhile.”

Uh…throw me a bone here? I don’t know jack shit about karate, but I do know that if you interrupt a prior topic to insert the subject into the conversation, etiquette suggests you damn well be prepared to hold up your end of said conversation…and that includes speaking in complete sentences as opposed to stilted one word phrases.

Obviously, my Husband and Brian gave up on Bomber fairly quickly. They have very little patience for people who are painfully socially inept and began ignoring him completely. I, on the other hand, felt sorry for the guy and kept struggling to talk to him.

“So where do you take lessons?”

“My Mother died!”

Fuck.

Out of the corner of my eye, I noticed the light on my phone was flashing; someone had sent me a text message. Since my conversation with Bomber was going nowhere, I figured it would be a good time to excuse myself to go the restroom. I did and found out that Brian had texted me from across the table.

“That orange guy is so weird!” he said.

“I know!” I texted back, “You guys should help me talk to him!”

“No way!”

I slugged my way back to the table like a murderer walking to the electric chair. Bomber was that painful.

After awhile, we realized Tiffany did not plan to join us for dinner. Considering the entire reason we were attending this dinner was to get to know Tiffany, it seemed pointless for us to stay.

“I think we’ll head home,” my Husband insisted, “Call us later if you want to hang out.”

“Sure thing,” said Brian.

“It was a pleasure getting to know you,” I lied to Bomber.

“Yes, yes,” he nodded creepily.

We didn’t make it out of the building before Brian sent my Husband a text message. My Husband immediately started laughing.

“What? Let me see!” I demanded.

He showed me his phone which read: “That weird orange guy is telling me that he thinks V is really hot!”

I groaned aloud and my Husband texted Brian back.

“What did you say?” I asked.

I read his phone again: “Tell him that you think she was really attracted to him as well.”

Then, “Haha, OK.”

I think it goes without saying that my Husband is an evil, disloyal, betraying bastard! Also, if I end up dead and buried under Bomber’s porch it is 100% his fault.

This finally, finally brings me to my point: “Nice Guys” are assholes.

You see, I bet Bomber thinks of himself as a typical “nice guy.” There is no doubt in my mind he spends hours on Internet message boards posting nonstop repetitive rants bemoaning the fact that women don’t seem to like him because he’s a really nice guy. In reality, he laments dramatically, women only want jerks. Women want guys who belittle them and refuse to call them after sex. Oh, woe is him!

What “Nice guys” never seem to consider is that the reason women don’t want them has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with their proposed “niceness.”

Women want funny guys. Women want smart guys. Women want guys who have mastered the skill of witty banter and are fully capable of carrying on a lively and interesting conversation. If all of this also came in a ‘nice’ package, women would pull those panties down so quick they would get burn marks on their goddamn thighs.

Do you want to know what women don’t want? They don’t want dorky little creeps with zero social skills who leer at them and interrupt conversations about karate to talk about their dead fucking Mother. They don’t like stuttering freaks or drooling nincompoops. The virgin serial killer vibe doesn’t get them hot. So sorry.

Despite their whiny insistence, self proclaimed “nice guys” are not getting snubbed because they’re nice. They’re getting snubbed because never, never, ever in my life have I met one who wasn’t also SOCIALLY RETARDED.

Learn to carry on a conversation, you creeps. After that, I guarantee you’ll get laid.

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64 Responses to Nice Guys Don’t Get Laid Because They’re Creeps

  1. VA: Nice Guys Don’t Get Laid Because They’re Creeps

    […] Original post: Nice Guys Don’t Get Laid Because They’re Creeps […]

  2. squeaky

    That is so true. This guy kept sending me instant messages saying things like, “Oh I don’t like my friends. They have sex with girls they don’t care about. Oh they don’t treat girls nice.” So I said “Get better friends.” He said, “I can’t stand how men treat women these days. It gets me so angry.” I responded with, “Why does it piss you off you’re not a chick?”

    Complaints, complaints.

  3. themaroon

    I think you get some points for being nice though. All other things being equal, women usually (but not always) seem to prefer a guy who will treat them well. The smart, witty, nice guy will do better than the smart, witty jackass.

  4. Sebastian

    Hey! I can’t help that I’m socially awkward, I have Asperger’s Syndrome! Haha.

  5. Psylight

    Women want funny guys. Women want smart guys. Women want guys who have mastered the skill of witty banter and are fully capable of carrying on a lively and interesting conversation.

    I’ve recently been through this kind of self-analysis. Usually your posts hit on the razor edge of truth, but I’m kind of at odds here. I’ve had relationships before, and reasonably successful ones at that. I’m able to make girls laugh and I can maintain my end of a conversation indefinitely.

    However, I’m also hopelessly lost in my own head. Since the failure of my last relationship (I ended it somewhat impulsively; it was probably a good decision.), I’ve stopped trying to pursue women for the most part. There have been a couple opportunities since then, and I’ve made half-hearted attempts. I’m not sure I’d label myself a “nice guy”, though others have called me that before. I believe that might be giving myself too much credit. I am, however, focused on improving the world around me, at cost to myself. It’s a spiritual thing. I haven’t gotten it just right yet, and I’m more-or-less committed to improving myself for the rest of my life to try and perfect this side of me.

    The truth, as I see it, is this: Women completely, utterly, and repeatedly fail at discerning the qualities of men. Women are, ultimately, given the power in modern relationships. They are much more desired by men than men are desired by women. Most men want to go home with a woman. Women want to go home with the right man. However, instead of doing the intelligent thing and trying to find the man of greatest character, they seem to end up settling with the men that present the best image. They are looking for all the wrong traits.

    I know many men. Invariably, the ones that would make the best boyfriends (the ones that possess qualities like loyalty, honesty, integrity, and so on) are passed over while the shallow but socially-adept ones date repeatedly. These socially-adept ones know how to manipulate and make women attracted to them. It’s not a particularly arcane skill, and can be taught effectively. There are large communities devoted exclusively to sharing experiences on how to attract women.

    The men that will make for successful long-term relationships are the ones that they are least attracted to initially. They are the awkward, geeky, quiet guys who accept the fact that for a relationship to work, both sides will probably need to change. The problem is that women trust their feelings of attraction. Women have not yet learned to second-guess that feeling and analyze things critically.

    You’re taking the traits of one “nice guy” and generalizing those traits across the spectrum of all men. Maybe I’m making some similar fallacies… This is just how I see it.

  6. cgarlington

    I was going to ask you if the guy at your table was one of the people the charity was for but a) it looks like Sebastien up there beat me to it and b) the comment by Psylight is cracking me up. I can’t help but hearing it in a sneering faux British accent from a guy wearing a handle bar mustache.

    “There are large communities devoted exclusively to sharing experiences on how to attract women.”

    They’re called Trekkie conventions.

  7. Psylight

    http://www.mpuaforum.com/ among other places, cgarlington. Seems cheesy, but it seems to be quite effective. Yet another resource I avoid…

  8. Rain

    Maybe he was, you know, actually socially retarded and not just stupid? That conversation sounded like a bad day for my brother, who has asperger’s. Fancy real diagnoses and everything, none of this reading a list of symptoms of the internet bullshit. Not sure what the whole analogy had to do with nice guys either.

    Tiffany’s a cow though. The only excuse is if you have a fatal allergy, like if cats trigger an asthma attack. Otherwise you can suck it up sniffles.

  9. adavies42

    Seriously V, the odds are better that he really couldn’t help himself than that he has any idea how he seems to people and just doesn’t care. I speak as a mild Asperger’s case myself, and someone who only got a girlfriend out of sheer luck. I have enough trouble making socially acceptable conversation just to pass the time; coherently talking to a girl I’m interested in (while actually communicating that I’m interested in her) is completely out of the question.

  10. ladylazarus

    AMEN.

    i met two self titled “nice guys” around the same time a year ago. my conversations with them both were usually the same. They talked about how nice they were and how girls never responded to them. they both believed that women were evil bitches and only assholes ended up with “hot chicks.” both of them were interested in me and pissed off when i began dating my current boyfriend even though i had not shown any interest in them other than arguing about how they need to grow up. they were honestly baffled as to how i couldn’t want to date either of them after they had only shown me self pity and complained about women. one even told me he was going to kill himself because he couldn’t get a girlfriend. i of course had to call him and convince him otherwise because that was not something i wanted on my conscience. he of course did not go through with it and only wanted attention from me. i haven’t talked to either of them since. nice indeed.

  11. Myroid

    It’s hard to carry on a conversation with a girl when her mouth is bound with duct tape. Just sayin’.

  12. diasdiem

    I used to have mild symptoms of this social interaction disease. A similar article on “nice guys” (I thought I had read it here, but couldn’t find it in the archives, a search feature would be good for this site) actually helped me recognize this and become more aware of it. I applaud V on constantly calling people on their own bullshit. The truth can be painful, but the first step to getting better is admitting you have a problem :-)

    Now my problem is mostly that I’m a terminal introvert with little or no social opportunities. I work at a job with only 3 other people, one who is about as socially inept as “Bomber” and the other two are at least 20 years older than me with families. All the people I used to hang out with have either moved out of town or gotten married so they have their own stuff to deal with. So pretty much I can only go out by myself, which makes me that one guy at the bar drinking by himself. Granted, being an introvert, I’m capable of having a good time by myself, and quite often prefer it that way. Except when I don’t. Everyone needs a little interaction.

    Psylight’s first post also cracked me up a bit. It’s like a perfect example of the internet message board rants V’s talking about.

  13. The L

    A-fucking-men! I once dated a guy, let’s call him “Joe” to protect his privacy.

    Joe was clearly in love with me. Since he was so smitten, and he treated me well, I tried to avoid his “little quirks” for a good while before I just couldn’t take it anymore and dumped him.

    My pet peeve? Joe would frequently complain that the reason no other woman would give him the time of day was because either
    a. “I’m fat, and they’re too shallow to date the fat guy,” or
    b. “Girls don’t want to date a nice guy–they want someone rich and handsome who’ll treat ‘em like shit.”

    I was too polite to tell him that
    a. He is in control of his own damn weight (Joe doesn’t have a glandular problem, he just drinks way too many high-calorie energy drinks), and

    b. “Nice guys” of the world, if you’re reading this, STFU about the “nice guys finish last” stereotype! Complaining about it all the time makes you look like an asshole, NOT a nice guy! When you complain, you look like a whiny baby. If you want girls to date you, STOP COMPLAINING. Play up your social strengths, and work to minimize your weaknesses. Act self-confident, and women will respond.

    “Nice guy” complainers are their own worst enemies, because they don’t realize that they’re the ones making themselves look bad.

  14. La BellaDonna

    V, I’ve been a good girl this year! For Christmas, can I take turns beating up Tiffany with you? Please? Pretty pretty pleeeease? I’ll let you go first, if you want! Honest!

    Any person, male or female, who wants you to give up your pets, should be smeared in honey and set out naked for fire ants, while I think of something unpleasant to do to them. That’s unforgiveable. Points to Brian for being a stand-up guy. V, he does know by now that she’s a total loser, right? The only possible long-term relationship would be if he wants to use her for chum in the spring while searching for sharks.

    Psylight, thank you for illustrating the kind of whiny jerk women do their best to avoid. What could be more appealing than a generalization of the entire gender’s shortcomings (i.e., their failure to appreciate YOU)? For doG’s sake, guys, pick up a couple of books on etiquette – yes, etiquette – general grooming, and take dance lessons while you’re at it, so you have something to bring to the table besides your somewhat elusive charm. My brother – late 40s, no hair, fat by anyone’s standards, and a very nice guy indeed, finally met the girl who was right for him – taller, blonde, pretty, 15 years younger, smart and geeky herself.

    For Pete’s sake, if you treated social skills as if they were any other skills to be mastered, and spent at least half the time learning them as you do whining about why women don’t appreciate you “as you are”, you might actually find some women who would, in fact, appreciate you – because by that time, there’d be something to appreciate.

  15. diasdiem

    That’s right, geeks! Level up and increase the Charisma stat on your character sheets! :-)

  16. HyperJen

    But… is Brian still with Tiffany?

  17. La BellaDonna

    I’d also like to point out to the Nice Guys™ who have only the fact that they’re “nice” to bring to the table, that the guys who are Nice, and also funny, or who are Nice, and goodlooking, or who are Nice, and also smart, or Nice, and have decent jobs, or who are Nice, and like to go swing-dancing, are automatically at least once step ahead of the guys who only have “nice” going for them. When a guy is “nice”, but also “whiney”, or “”nice”” (yes, it warrants TWO sets of quotes) and misogynistic, that puts him TWO steps behind the guy who is merely “nice”, and THREE steps behind the guy who is Nice and enjoys gourmet cooking – and cleans up afterward.

    “Nice” by itself IS NOT ENOUGH. It’s a flippin’ adjective. If it’s the only one you have going for you, go get some more. If all a woman had going for her in terms of a description was “nice”, you certainly wouldn’t be lining up to date her. How do I know this? Because there are plenty of perfectly nice women in high school, in college, in graduate school, out working, who AREN’T dating, and who would like to. Based on personal interviews with Nice Guys™, and extensive reading, Nice Guys™ all want to date Pamela Anderson – or, these days, her younger sister/equivalent. Polish up your social skills, broaden your own criteria, and stifle your sense of entitlement, and your chances of dating and/or forming relationships should increase exponentially.

  18. La BellaDonna

    And that would be “one step”. *sigh*

  19. D3XOWNZ

    Three things…

    1) Psylight – Kudos for having the balls to post. You should be commended for standing up for the gender in the face of such an attack. Your 100% correct.

    2) V- The guy in question may have actually been mentally handicapped, and if he isn’t, I fear for the collective gene pool. You should also be commeneded for the attempt at the conversation…however….

    The generalization? C’mon, luv…seriously? we’re going there? What year is it?

    Your usually spot on, but you swung wide on this one. That aside 2 out of 3 isn’t a bad mark, overall.

    3)Everyone attacking “Nice guys” – I’m not a nice guy. I’ve lied my way into way more panties than I care to admit. Point of fact reading this blog has been a refreshing change, actually, simply because V is a woman who uses her brain and not her a$$ to get what she wants (I’m sure your husband may say different, but that’s your prerogative to use it against him…Comes with the ring! LOL ) and actually can logic her way through a dilemma, something severely lacking among most women.

    The point is most of the women have responded ( I’m looking at your La B.D. ) like schoolyard bullies. You’ve laid waste-like to a few of these less fortunates and now, later, you attack them for not liking it?
    Way to make your case, ladies, seriously. Don’t they make therapy for that kind of guilt? I mean, this is V’s forum, so she’s exempt from this, but you ladies just set your gender back 30 years easily.

    Upside, however…..at least I’ll know who to target next time I’m down at the bar! High Five!!

    d3xOWNZ

  20. Goldie

    Team Aspergers. Bomber is definitely in need of professional help, assuming he was sober, of course. Either way, not sure how that turned into a nice-guy-bashing session. Tiffany sounds pretty awful, though.

  21. La BellaDonna

    d3xOWNZ

    I have carefully and specifically outlined concrete ways in which people who are unhappy with the current state of their social lives can take charge of their own behaviour and modify it in ways to obtain results more pleasing to them, and *I* am the schoolyard bully? For what, exactly, am I supposed to feel guilty?

    Well, at least you pride yourself on being a liar.

    It’s not something I would be proud of, myself, and for the record, I’d go out any night of the week with a whiney Nice Guy™ who had nothing else to recommend him in preference to a smug and sanctimonious liar – one who, moreover, appears to be self-righteous — about what, I’m not entirely certain.

    Fortunately, I don’t have to choose between either – I get to go home to an actual nice guy; the nicest guy I’ve ever known, in fact – and make him happy. In the meantime, if YOU can come up with more useful ways for a Nice Guy™ who has nothing more than his “niceness” to recommend him to actually improve his social life, go for it. Seriously, go for it; what’s the worst that’ll happen? You’ll come up with another way for these guys to actually have a social life? Since that was the point of my suggestions, it’s not as if anybody loses.

  22. diasdiem

    Thing is, you might not know you’re going out with a smug, sanctimonious liar because they might be lying about being nice. Y’know, since they’re liars and all. It’s a conundrum.

    It’s like the saying: “Sincerity is the secret to success. And once you learn how to fake that, you’ve got it made.” :-)

    I actually found the post I mentioned earlier. It’s from another site, but you can understand why I thought it was from here. Now we know why this site is called Violent Acres. The other domain names were already taken :-D

    http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml

  23. T-bird

    Okay woa woa woa. Cat allergies are fucking miserable, even if they’re not asthma attack inducing. I see where that bitch is coming from.

    She’s still a bitch, though. Maybe I am too.

  24. ecclefty21

    LBD:

    I do not see where states that he took pride in what he did. I do believe that you inferred that, completely erroneously. As far as I can gather from his comment, he was just stating that sometimes you have to play the game as a means to an end.

    I may be completely incorrect here, but in terms of having a debate of sorts, you seem to be missing the point. You are imposing your own, faulty, interpretation upon someone else’s information, and portraying that interpretation as gospel. A good debate that does not make.

    Personally, speaking as one of these “nice guy” pariahs, yeah, it is a rough road. I recently had a bad experience with a female because I treated her with respect and declared my intentions. I personally think that the social conditioning of females under the age of 30, for the most part, has to do with the fact that most of them do not know how to respond when someone wants to take the time to actually build a genuine rapport with them, and not just view them as a sexual object.

    More importantly, having grown up in a house of females, especially a mother and a sister who is a year younger than, meant that I was exposed to a lot of estrogen…especially when my sister was a teenager and bringing her friends over. I was not as socially adept as I am now, but I learned through those experiences the proper way to treat a lady. Notice my choice of words…lady. My mother instilled in me, that I am to treat a lady with the respect that she deserves, and that any female that did not appreciate that, was the one with the problem.

    This is not to say that I did not have a period of misogyny. I did. I did not fare much better, during that period…though I spent a lot of time feeding lines to any girl that seemed interested, just as a means to an end. I however realised the error of my ways, and made the decision to be who I am…the dreaded “nice guy”.

    Being a “nice guy” has a stigma to it, sure. And I realise that I that I am not always going to get the girl I want. However, at the same time, I also know that at the end of the day, not need to look back and feel any remorse.

    The being socially adept part, has been the hardest thing to learn. For the longest time, I could not read a female’s signals to save my life. However, through much trial and error, I have become fairly affable in that realm. Now, the only problem I encounter is that I hold people accountable for what they do, and most females that I have encountered do not want to be held accountable.

    However, that is not something that I can control. It is a product of their environment and their socialisation. I understand and accept this, and at some point things will work out for me.

    Also, thank you to D3X and Psylight for attempting to explain the quandary that fellows like me typically encounter.

    And V, thanks for allowing us to engage in an intellectual debate in response to your thoughts and concepts.

  25. D3XOWNZ

    Ah, the lovely (hack!) La BellaDonna…the name sez it all, am I right?

    To accept your challenge, I need only address the previous comments left by fellow testicularilly inclined members Psylight, who went above and beyond to illustrate how he was NOT trying to whine and simply stated things as he saw them….and Diasdiem. who while not agreeing with Psylight’s methodology, can commiserate if nothing else.

    This may have escaped you since neither of them attacked anyone nor belittled just under half the population of the Earth with their stories and suggestions. You, on the other hand (as well as others) did just that and any message you may have intended was lost in translation.

    In the face of what can only be called “scorched earth policy” they felt it prudent to reply and should be commended, and in fact it is this quality that makes them “men” in the truest sense of the word.

    And let’s be real here, shall we? If a man had made such grandiose statements he would be branded a misogynist at best and be strung up from the nearest Payless Shoes sign by his groin.

    Another truth: Men lie for sex, as do women. If that weren’t true the compression garment and waterbra industries would have died long ago. You try impressing us with your bodies and clothes, we try impressing you with our wallets and egos…simple as that.

    Is this true of everyone? No, it’s not, but it’s the rule that proves the exception and anyone stating differently has either been out of the game so long as not to remember or is a fool.

    And for the Men out there, let me try to translate what the ladies here meant (yes, I’m gonna talk for you, it’s 2008, get over it)

    “Listen, Go with your strengths. Make an honest concerted effort to listen and try to find common ground. Talk about yourself and your past if you want but please shut the f**k up and stop whining. I am not “that girl”. But I repeat, do not put with this crap of “Nice guys finish last”. You don’t have to if you don’t want to….just try.”

    That about right, BD?

    -d3xOWNZ

    **Addendum: V, this is your show, and thanks for the opportunity to comment. Obviously this doesn’t apply to you here since it’s your forum.

    Respect.**

  26. D3XOWNZ

    BTW, guys….also read V’s “7 Surefire Ways to Gain the Interest of Any Woman”….absolutely true and almost always works.

    -d3xOWNZ

    http://www.violentacres.com/archives/237/7-surefire-ways-to-gain-the-interest-of-any-woman

  27. Psylight

    La BellaDonna: Like I said, I don’t have difficulty with relationships. I’m currently not in one at the moment because I don’t desire to be in one. I’ve got other priorities. Discussing matters like these on random blogs seems to be part of that set of priorities… go figure.

    It’s all about practice. Get enough practice and confidence will follow. Walling yourself off from the world is not a strategy to meet women. Complaining gets you nowhere. Men have to show attraction to women. Period. Treating her like a lady and refusing to initiate anything is not a solution! You’re going to have to keep her engaged, keep her interest. Touch her. Get her hot for you.

    We’re on the same page here, for the most part. The problem is not the so-called “nice guys”, it’s the whiny idiots who think that they’re “nice guys” when really they’re not. Noone likes a whiner. There are a lot of guys out there who think they’re “nice guys” when really they’re not that dissimilar from Joe Douchebag. For every lonely nice guy out there there’s a woman who can’t find the nice guy she wants because the nice guy refuses to show that he’s interested in her at all.

    Yet the “nice guys” are not the only ones to blame here. Women contribute to this problem. I am a feminist, and I would love to see the dating world even out. Guys are expected to make all the first moves, and I find this frustrating to no end.

    Yeah, internet message board, blah blah blah…

  28. mindofspaz

    You know V, there’s nothing wrong with having SOME sand in your vagina, but sometimes you need to clean it out a bit.

    Poor guy can’t even admire your physical appearance without you making those kind of assumptions.

    hell, makes a good blog post though.

  29. a1

    Now for some fun:

    Psylight: I agree with your last post from November 24th, 2008 at 10:32 pm. (Anyone who’s reading this: find that one.)

    D3XOWNZsyndrome, you sound like a fan of that retard who has the VH1 show on picking up loose women. And you wear panties? Damn, boy. No wonder you can’t meet girls.
    I’m just playing. Stop taking people’s rants so personally. Everyone’s been socially awkward, or known someone who was. It’s not just you.

    [quote=ecclefty21]”most of them do not know how to respond when someone wants to take the time to actually build a genuine rapport with them, and not just view them as a sexual object. ” [/quote]
    I don’t think that’s always the case. You may just be boring.
    This isn’t to say that there are a lot of slutty bitches out there, because there are, and most of them aren’t interested in …much. But you do sound like you pick winners. Do you go after the “nice girls?”

    Is being a “nice guy” so different from being a nice girl?
    How come we haven’t heard from any “nice girls” yet?

    D3XOWNZsyndrome: “If a man had made such grandiose statements he would be branded a misogynist at best and be strung up from the nearest Payless Shoes sign by his groin.”
    What world do you live in that woman run? No, really. (And I don’t know any women that shop at Payless, but I digress..)

    mindofspaz: “Poor guy can’t even admire your physical appearance without you making those kind of assumptions.” —
    Uh, did you miss the part where she spoke to him and tried being nice to the guy? I’ll forgive you for poor reading skills this time, since your mind is of a spaz.

  30. diasdiem

    Some thoughts:

    ecclefty21:
    It always kinda makes my skin crawl when a guy refers to a member of the female sex as “a female” instead a girl, lady, woman, whatever. It makes them sound like a friggin’ zoologist. “The female routinely bites the head off of the male post-coitus and devours him.”

    When I hear about “how to treat a Lady” with an implied capital L, especially if it’s taught by your mother, I can’t help but think of Brendan Faiser in Blast From the Past, or a dusty book on etiquette from the Victorian age. It can be a little anachronistic, which translates to dorky if taken too far. There’s a bid difference between holding a door open, and throwing your coat over a mud puddle for her to walk on. Chivalry is not dead, it just had a debilitating stroke. And some women prefer you leave it in the convalescent home. If a woman doesn’t like for you to open her door, or pull out her chair, don’t insist on doing it. That’s not showing respect, its condescension. But if she goes for it, then cool.

    D3X:
    Kudos on your vocabulary skills. You’ve obviously been increasing your Word Power. I think you kinda come off as a little pompous though. It’s a blog comment, not a doctoral dissertation. Seriously, read it over again.

    You might not be a misogynist, but jabbing with the stereotypical link between women and shoe stores definitely disqualifies you as the male version of Gloria Steinem.

    Women only have to lie for sex if they’re extremely particular about who the have sex with. Otherwise they just have to yell “Come and get it!” loudly enough.

    Psylight:
    On the subject of whiny idiots, go back and read your first post, particularly paragraphs 3-5. Doesn’t that sound exactly like the self-indulgent whining V was talking about? Or that you just talked about?

  31. diasdiem

    http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp02142004.shtml

    This is what I think of as a “nice guy.” I think the major downfall of “nice guys” with “nice personalities” is that they aim way to high for what they have to offer a woman. There are plenty of “nice girls” with “nice personalities” they could probably be with, but everyone wants the hottie. They want the hottie with intelligence and a good personality, if they have any brains at all, because as Ron White said, “You can’t fix stupid.” Unfortunately, attractive women (with or without intelligence and good personality) can get nice guys who don’t have to put apostrophes around their nice personalities. Or admittedly, an asshole who at least knows how to fake a nice personality for a while. So they consistently fail, with one of three outcomes:

    1.) They lower their sights and settle for a “nice girl” with a “nice personality.” And if they’re fortunate, they learn to be happy with her, and lose that feeling of “settling.”

    2.) They continue to fail and either give up entirely or make due with porn and prostitutes while continuing to fail all of their lives. Unless they find something else to fill the void left by their nonexistent love lives.

    3.) They wise up and improve themselves socially and/or physically and/or cosmetically to promote themselves to a higher pay grade, one without apostrophes. Maybe not enough to get the Maxim girl outright, but at least they have decent bait to lure them in so that their nice personality can set the hook.

    Currently, I’m #2 looking to bump up to #3. Mostly a matter of time and money, or lack thereof. I want the hottie, just like everyone else, and I don’t have the looks or style or social ability to get her, at least not yet. But at least I don’t bitch about her only going out with assholes anymore :-) Here’s to losing apostrophes!

  32. D3XOWNZ

    Diasdiem:
    Thank you for recognizing intellect when you see it. If the worst thing someone can say about my blogging style is that I use a lot of big words, I can only shake their hand and pass the thesaurus. Consider it done.

    I don’t see why I should be chastised for the use of stereotypes when they are being bandied about by pretty much everyone at this stage, but hey…some people can’t take the heat. Try wearing the ‘thicker skin’ your espousing (definition: To give one’s loyalty and support to; adopt) or ..I don’t know, think before you speak?

    a1:
    For the love of all that’s good and decent, please….learn to read. Your details were wrong and your obvious misspelling of my name speaks volumes about your intellect. I hear the local Sylvan Learning Center is doing wonders, and there’s always Hooked on Phonics. I’ll be pulling for you and am more than willing to have private tutoring at my place if need be.

    I’m sure your panties will look better on my floor than on me anyway.

    Note: For those of you still reading let me reiterate, I never once said V was wrong. I said she may have ‘swung wide” (to quote myself) but hey, it’s her assessment and since I wasn’t there I can’t and won’t judge.

    I am judging those that turned her insight about a personal experience into a soapbox to man-bash “Nice Guys” to get over their own guilt or personal accountability for having behaved poorly. I added my own experiences as a litmus test, which some of you have quite frankly failed. You can dish but can’t take it and well…it’s obvious a confident man who doesn’t “know his place” will only be attacked.

    Funny thing, though…isn’t your behavior EXACTLY what most feminists were and are fighting against men doing to them? Those that act out like this don’t want equality, you want superiority….hence setting back your gender as a whole.

    -d3xOWNZ

  33. glock

    Well, fuck. I created an account on this thing simply to say that I dig your style, and I just found out about it a couple of days ago. Fuck yeah StumbleUpon.

    You and your husband ever split, you look me up.

  34. Kate

    The funny thing about ‘nice’ guys is that I know many who are actually really nice… they are also typically witty, caring, fun and sometimes might even be kind of sweet in a goofy Labrador sort of way … most have a very low ‘creepy’ factor … and to a man, not one of them would consider themselves a ‘nice guy’.

    I think the paradox is sort of like ‘humble’ people .. if they have to label themselves as such, there is probably some reason why they feel the need.

    Consider that “I am a ‘nice’ guy!” usually prefaces “… so why can I not get a date?” (which then progresses to “… because all woman are bitches who hate ‘nice guys!”)…

    Consider also the number of ‘nice’ guys who spend their days lusting after supermodels.

    Perhaps if more self-proclaimed ‘nice’ guys would look around them at ‘real’ woman who share their interests instead of subconsciously going after woman guaranteed to ‘prove’ out their hypothesis (that ‘the bitches’ do not like ‘nice’ guys), they would find a whole world of woman out there who would love to spend time with them…

    Of course, that also means spending a little time learning how to carry on conversations on a lot of different subjects.. and how to figure out when peoples eyes are glossing over, that it might be time to change the topic a bit. And NOT to their dead mother.

  35. diasdiem

    “Consider also the number of ‘nice’ guys who spend their days lusting after supermodels.”

    Gotta love the Unattainable Standard of Beauty. It presents unrealistic goals for both sexes. Equal Opportunity Frustration. The difference is that men seem to be more obsessed with obtaining a girl with the USB than attaining the male equivalent for themselves, which would probably go a good ways in helping them with the other goal. Although I gotta admit I had an urge to go do like 1000 crunches after watching “300”

    I wonder why the FTC doesn’t outlaw post-processing of images for clothing and makeup ads. Rampant Photoshopping and airbrushing seems like false advertising to me. Thank goodness for grocery store tabloids and their high-exposure pictures of celebs with no makeup to remind us of reality :-D

  36. David

    I think what a lot of the nice guys are doing is putting the chicken before the egg when they claim that women are attracted to jerks. They’re attracted to handsome confident men. It’s just that when they’re paid lots of attention by the opposite (or same if that’s their thing) sex, people have a tendency to turn into insufferable fuckheads. Those who are attracted to them tend to ignore this jerkiness in the way that people always initially ignore the obvious flaws in someone they want to fuck. Then the idiot “nice guy” mistakes jerkiness for the attractive quality.

    That said, I don’t think “Bomber” is really representative of these guys.
    His conversation skills suggest that he might need a helmet. The guy who has an unrequited crush on a friend/coworker/whatever who he talks to everyday but can’t ask out (because she’s pining for the quarterback) is their champion.

  37. D3XOWNZ

    Thank you, David and Kate, for bringing the intellectual commentary.

  38. chompy

    In a nutshell:

    1. Don’t talk about what a nice guy you are. Prove it with your actions.
    2. Learn how to cook a few things really well. There are plenty of ladies who have a route to their hearts via their stomachs.
    3. Become excellent at oral sex. For reals.

  39. unsubscribemeplease_memoryska@charter.net_asapwouldbenice

    Oh yeah. After unsubscribing me, if you could go ahead and delete the above message (and this one preferably) that’d be great.

    Thanks again

    :)

  40. cadylee

    Can we get more about Tiffany? Tiffany sounds like a ripe source for interesting stories. As for Red, “nice” and “socially retarded” aren’t the same thing. Socially awkward, maybe, but I think this guy had a serious problem.

  41. KBlock

    -You see, I bet Bomber thinks of himself as a typical “nice guy.”-

    But did he say that?

    -There is no doubt in my mind he spends hours on Internet message boards posting nonstop repetitive rants bemoaning the fact that women don’t seem to like him because he’s a really nice guy.-

    Some guys do that, but this is where you made the huge leap. It’s possible, but it seems like you’re using this guy as an example to get something else off your chest.

    -In reality,-

    I thought you just said “I bet…” In reality, this is all conjecture.

    -he laments dramatically, women only want jerks. Women want guys who belittle them and refuse to call them after sex. Oh, woe is him!-

    I thought you could do better here. I’m aware you’re not that great a writer (or don’t think that you are) but I have not seen such a heap of logical fallacies in your posts before. It was a hasty vent, disappointingly ordinary.

    Poor socially retarded people, it’s hard to make friends and get socially adjusted, so you just continue to be hateable. I think socially awkward people are more self-aware than you give them credit for, in that they know they are socially awkward. Their sense of humor may be off but they don’t know how far. They try too hard because they want something to make an impression. Small talk is a skill, clicking with someone can be difficult.

    A lot of nice guys are nice but there’s something wrong with them. That’s why they are always asking, Why him, I’m nice, why not me? What is wrong with me? They don’t know the answer because nobody has the heart to tell them or decides to be responsible for helping out a guy or gal.

    It’s hard to socially unawkward oneself, be a nice guy, and have anyone who wants to tell you what is wrong with you that you can’t get the girl, or even a friend who won’t avoid you, gets close enough to have patience and care enough to tell you. Socialization requires people. Socially awkward people who inflict themselves on the rest of us are doing what they can to try. People who stay hidden inside away from others might be what’s good for everyone’s safety, but it exacerbates their issues. Maybe they will find this article or another, take some of the advice about how to increase their appeal to friends and other interesting people.

  42. Nebx1989

    Your attitude is simply disgusting…

    Have you ever heard of Asperger’s syndrome? This guy obviously doesn’t know that he’s being creepy… hell, he probably doesn’t even realize that he’s just bad at keeping a conversation going. Good job, you tried talking to him… and then gave up, walked away, and made fun of him with your douche bag of a husband and his friend… have you even considered the possibility that it’s simply not his fault? that maybe he’s simply not “normal” and was just born like this? that, perhaps, he doesn’t think like you? You don’t even have to talk to people like him if, for some reason, it creeps you out… but don’t fucking lie to them and then complain about the fact that they think they’re nice people…

    Why the hell do you think that he probably thinks he’s a nice guy and that girls only want assholes? Could it be because people like you constantly lie to him? You don’t even like him, tell him the god damn truth already, stop being such an imbecile… You didn’t want to talk to him… fine, just don’t… but, christ, let him know that you don’t want to talk to him! Don’t just lie to him, walk away, and complain about the fact that he thinks he’s a nice guy… You basically made him believe that he was a nice guy, even though you don’t like him and won’t ever talk to him again, so what the fuck is he supposed to think? He probably doesn’t even understand how social interaction works, and you’re definitely not helping with your retarded attitude.

    You’re disgusting, and i hope you get shot in the ovaries.

  43. woogi

    @Psylight: Seriously, man, wake the fuck up and/or get over yourself. You are making yourself into the exact icon that V just dissected and ripped to shreds. There is no excuse for being socially inept, just as there is no excuse for being a fat slob. It requires practice to have self-confidence and social awareness, just as it requires practice to exercise and eat well.

    Good post, V. I still think you should disable comments, the human race is already pathetic enough without your readers falling all over themselves to prove each other wrong in the most insensitive way possible.

  44. woogi

    @Nebx1989: I can’t resist that… Asperger’s is very uncommon, and it’s much more likely that the guy is just that awkward. AS just seems to be the cool new form of autism that everyone likes to throw at someone who seems socially inept.

  45. a1

    Dear D3XOWNZsyndrome,
    You are just as big of a retard as I initially thought.
    “I’ve lied my way into way more panties than I care to admit.” – Sounds like you wear panties to me.

  46. D3XOWNZ

    Woogi – Agreed, good post, but your assessment of Psylight is based on what exactly? Remember people, opinions are like a$$holes, everybody’s got one and think everyone elses stinks.

    A1 – Really? A “gotchya last game”? have more tact than that, luv.

    -d3xOWNZ

  47. woogi

    @D3XOWNZ: Especially on the internet.

  48. pointsincase.com

    Not that I’m particularly surprised, but this post amounts to a false dilemma.

    There are plenty of women who aren’t as attracted to nice guys qua nice guys. For a variety of reasons, they respond sexually to being mistreated; I believe your evisceration of one Tucker Max might speak to that. Whether these women are worth having is an entirely different issue, but to imply the choices are “creepy and annoying” or “witty and pantydropping” is to ignore the mediocre middle ground inhabited by the very people you’re patronizing in this post.

  49. D3XOWNZ

    woogi –

    …..
    …..

    …touche’.

  50. C

    Asbergers or no- I’ve met a kid full-on autistic who can handle himself better than that, because his parents put a lot of work into making sure he could be let out in public unattended.

    As to nice guys? I like this one- http://divalion.livejournal.com/163615.html
    A different train of reasoning than yours, but it’s always made me laugh.

  51. got80s

    I’m just wondering if this charity event was for Asperger’s Syndrome? Just a thought.

    btw, love your site, content, been reading it through Google Reader for the past 2 years.

  52. Griffin

    I agree with V! If you’re nice AND have other good qualities, people will want to be around you

    I’m a (real) Nice Guy and can carry on a conversation. I’m still a big nerd and not very good looking. I have flaws. I’ve still never had an issue with dating. I’ve always had suitors of both sexes be interested. If I were single, I can think of three or four people who would be very interested in dating me.

    My boss, on the other hand, is Nice… and very witty, good job, good income, nice friends etc. Not too hard on the eyes either (but not model-quality looks). If he got divorced tomorrow they’d have to hold a lottery to see who hit on him first. He works in a major “nerd job” and loves it, and that would NOT deter any would-be suitors from asking him out.

    If you act like the “Nice Guy” in V’s story, then you’re not nice at all. You interrupt, you don’t listen, you have zero people skills and

    If he does have Asperger’s (he doesn’t), then he would be actively working to correct these flaws. He wouldn’t be hiding behind his condition. He most likely has social anxiety. Similar, but not exactly the same thing (for one thing, social anxiety is comparatively easy to overcome).

    I also spent my late teens overcoming my social anxiety. I don’t have Asperger’s at all, I have/had Social Anxiety Disorder. If you really try in social situations, it won’t be a factor at all. But this guy isn’t even trying, so I have zero sympathy for him.

  53. what

    This post was absolute junk.
    Absolute.

  54. D3XOWNZ

    And last werds go to “what”.

    Agreed, agreed.

  55. JWS

    I know this is way outdated but I came across this post and I had a thought. I consider myself to be a nice guy (I get told a lot that I’m really nice) and my dating/sex isn’t where I want it to be but I never complain about women going for jerks. I hate when guys complain about that kind of stuff. Its like their whining on behalf of all nice guys, making people like me look bad.

    Sure, I am disappointed that I haven’t been as successful as I wanted to with women but at the same time, I’m motivated to want to improve. I don’t want to change who I am or become a jerk to get more action. What I have been working towards over the last few years is becoming a better, more attractive, more confident, more social, more smooth version of myself. I’ve been working out regularly, dressing stylishly, approaching more people, etc. I’m nowhere near as smooth as James Bond but as long as things are going better (which I think they are), I am happy.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that there is a difference between being “a nice guy” and being nice. The “nice guy” is a label. Though it sounds positive, its not an attractive label. These types of people are stereotyped as pushovers who will do anything people tell them to and are always looking to please people. Women aren’t generally attracted to these types of guys because women want men who they can look up to, not men who kiss up to them.

    However, this does not mean that you have to be a jerk. There are plenty of men who are respectful, caring, polite, considerate, etc who attract women easily. The difference between these guys and “the nice guys” is that the word ‘nice’ does not define them. It is just one of their great qualities. They are cool, attractive guys who just happen to be nice. They are considered cool and attractive not necessarily because of good looks and money (though those qualities can help) but because of the way they carry themselves. They project a sense of confidence that subconsciously attracts women. That is the type of guy I’m working towards becoming.

    I know this is long but my word of advice to “nice guys” is the fact that you are nice is not what prevents you from being successful with women. You should still be nice. You just don’t want that to be your label.

  56. You're retarded

    The blogger lady “V” is a dumb bitch in the fact that she supported “Bomber’s” social awkwardness by pretending to be interested in the conversation. I used to have social anxiety, and the way I got over it was by receiving positive signals after I did the RIGHT things in conversation. Now imagine if everyone was as nice as you, and pretended to like my conversation when I was learning to be social. I’d get nowhere.

    As for the “I’m a nice guy” morons, I totally agree. There is a positive correlation between being a nice guy, and never getting laid. Don’t let a woman walk all over you – make her jump through hoops to get your approval, you pathetic loser. My brother has confidence, is short, “acceptable” looking, genuinely nice – the polar opposite of a jerk, and gets laid by many good looking women. Grow a pair nice guys.

  57. anonymouse

    oh geez, shut up. more self-important drivel. now, I probably should have prefaced that with stating that I absolutely fuckin love your website all around. I agree with you on the vast majority of things. seriously, our sociopolitical views align with each other to a mysterious degree.

    however, this particular article is utter chaff. here you are, yet another female that tries to insist that “no, omgbffwtfbbq that is so totally not true that nice guys are actually nice, they are like so totally misogynistic creeps.” geez. if I hear one more female whining that “nice guys” are not actually nice, I’m going to tear someone a new one.

  58. anonymouse

    you are yet another female that makes excuses out the wazoo about the fact that you usually go after assholes exclusively. things like complaining that nice guys aren’t actually nice, that assholes are actually fun and exciting and bullshit like that. making excuses as to why you have shitty decision-making skills and horrible taste in men.

    geez, just turn it off, would you. like clockwork, no doubt you will still be trumpeting the virtues of “not nice guys” even when you end up with multiple STDs, multiple unwanted pregnancies, and your soul being a little more hollow and carved out every day.

  59. Understanding

    I guarantee he was not that bad, the thing is, people are social, value social interaction very deeply so when socially awkward people who have had trouble learning proper discourse show up, they are often labeled as “off”. This is not entirely society’s fault or the awkward person’s fault, but both. I went through school an outcast, autistic, and generally treated horribly. I was even falsely accused of terrorism. On the other hand I often had trouble thinking about what I would say in a conversation and over analyzed to the point that what I thought sounded great was actually considered rude and heartless.
    All people can work towards being more understanding. While people would make rash judgement calls about me, I would often also do the same thing based on my intellectual ability, both which are incorrect. The socially awkward have about as many problems as others but do not handle it well and end up looking off. I still have trouble grasping social interactions, but I try to grant leniency when looking at others and try to be nice us much as possible, and am not looked at as awkward as I was when I was a wreck over it. Just like helping someone with their homework is throwing away intellectual biases, helping someone with social convention is throwing away social biases. Almost nothing can be determined about someone from first impressions, so in situations where something important is not on the line, say your in a bad neighborhood and someone looks shady, everyone can benefit from trying to understand each other a little better. I have good friends now and even though I am described as weird, I am rarely excluded like I have been in the past.
    He really needs to think of a better name than bomber, though.

  60. R-E-S-P-E-C-T

    Hey Sebastian, go suck it.

  61. magneto was damn right

    Gee man. Well, i guess ill be the only anomaly who disagrees with you. everyone on here is a god damn sheep. WTF was this guy doing that was so harmful, evil, etc. other than that he was plain different.you along with the other sheep on this are just finding excuses to bash people because they are different. This is the shit people put up in high school. Then you wonder why school shootings happen. NO, I DO NOT SUPPORT VIOLENCE!! THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR IT! I’m just saying that a lot of people are in pain because they get stomped on, made fun of, abused,etc. just for being different. Do you bash people for having cancer? probably not. There is a story on the news about a teacher who was caught bullying an autistic boy A lot of people here have not grown the fuck up. You and every one else here follow this survival of the fittest mentality. You must be “alpha” to get the girl. You must be the protector, the hunter, the provider etc. I have no problems doing that but its only on my terms. Ill do it because I like the woman. I do it because she’s my best friend. Not simply because I am a guy. Why the fuck should I change for anybody. If you cant accept me for who i am, the go fuck yourself! Andre Gide said “its better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you are not”.

  62. what?

    I can’t believe I read all of that .

    It was kind of entertaining…but your conclusion sucked.

    Women want good looking guys.

    End of story……..

  63. MC

    This nonsense, it does not matter if a guy is nice or is a jerk.
    It all has to do with looks.
    By observing, I seen that intelligence, sense of humor, talent etc etc, has no importance at all. Women just go for hot guys. Some hot guys are jerks, some hot guys are nice. It is just that other men notice the jerk much more than the nice guy, and they are brought up with the myth “Women don’t care about looks”.

  64. Mike

    The writer of this article is TRULY a piece of shit. This had nothing to do with “nice guys” not getting laid and more about the OP having little to no tolerance for people who are different or have problems in social situations. At any point in your conversation with “Bomber” did he complain about not having a girlfriend or being bitter? It sounded to me like you just never grew out of your judgmental high school phase and are continuing to treat people as if they are beneath you. Seriously, you should kill yourself.

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